Benefits of Adversity: Justin Stoddard Interview #160

Resiliency is not a trait—it’s a skill. And like any skill, it can be learned, practiced, and strengthened, says Dr. Justin Stoddard. From his early days as an Army combat medic, he witnessed firsthand how adversity can either break a person or forge them into something stronger. These moments shaped him—not just as a soldier but as a leader, a mentor, and a student of resiliency. 

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Wiser Financial Advisor – Benefits of Adversity: Justin Stoddard Interview

Hi Everyone, and welcome to the Wiser Financial Advisor podcast, where we get real, we get honest, and we get clear about the financial world and your money. This is your host, Josh Nelson, Certified Financial Planner, founder and CEO of Keystone Financial Services. Let the financial fun begin! 

Josh: Welcome, Justin Stoddard to the Wiser Financial Advisor Podcast. Glad you're here.

Justin: Grateful to be here, Josh. This is fantastic.

Josh: We met a few months ago when we both happened to be at a fundraiser for the Warrior Bonfire charity program. You're involved deeply as a fundraiser, so we'll talk about that in a little bit. But we got to talking and I think the work you do and a lot of the topics we cover on this podcast, fit together nicely. So, we're going to talk about a lot of good stuff, but before that, give us some runway at the beginning here, and bring us up to speed on where you're at today.

Justin: Thanks, Josh. To give you a little background without going back too far, I grew up in a big family, lots of challenges, moved around a ton, ended up joining the military and going to CU Boulder, where I got a degree in Russian studies and also philosophy. I ended up being an infantryman, and spent time in the military overseas in Afghanistan. After I finished that, I switched to military intelligence and then pursued a PhD degree where I could focus on helping people as I had in military service. I focused on higher education leadership, and discovered this topic of resilience. We're all living this concept of being resilient and experiencing resiliency every day, but I dove into the research and the background of it. While doing that, I ended up getting a job at the Center for Character and Leadership Development at the United States Air Force Academy, where I'm currently working. And as I started to share these ideas with different people, I realized this topic was important for people to hear. So, I created the company called Climbing the Mountain, and I’ve used that as a vehicle to talk about resiliency and the benefits of adversity. 

We often talk about adversity as something we need to get away from, something we need to overcome. The term ‘bounce back’ gets thrown around a lot, but it's been amazing to talk to people and shift the script on how we think about adversity. I live here in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Love the weather, love the cold, and love traveling around and meeting interesting people all over the world, which is what took me to Warrior Bonfire. I love that organization. They do so much for so many Purple Heart veterans and their families. Shout out to Warrior Bonfire programs. If you don't know about them, you should know about them. So that's a little bit about me and what I'm doing. I’m grateful to share those messages with you today.

Josh: Absolutely. Thank you for your service, not only in the past, but you're still serving. Through Warrior Bonfire, you’re making a difference to guys and gals who have been through some intense stuff. Can you tell us about that? Because although many people could probably talk about resiliency or adversity as a topic, you have learned about it through and through and lived it. So, as you introduce that topic with your troops, your students, how do you talk about it so they understand that you’re somebody who's actually been through some tough stuff?

Justin: Well, resiliency shows up in different ways, and there's always this relationship between resiliency and adversity. I share with people how I've been dealing with adversity and working with adversity, like all of us have, since I was a kid. I moved around a lot as a kid. By the time I graduated from high school, I’d moved 19 times. I went to four different high schools. Well, that presents some amount of adversity right there, because always being the new kid, never having a close group of friends you grew up with for years and years, presents difficulties that I had to navigate, which led to many different experiences. 

I spent some time in Russia early on, doing some humanitarian aid work for my faith, from 1993 to 95. That was an interesting time to be in Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia. Then in the military, I went to Afghanistan from 2003 to 2004. Those were the early days, pre-surge. I just watched a movie called Twelve Strong the other day. In 2003 to 2004, we hadn't developed a lot of standard operating procedures (SOPs). We didn't know exactly what we were doing; we were trying to figure it out. I was in the infantry firefights and IED explosions and a lot of those types of things. That makes you sit back and think, “Wow, what do I do with this? How do I process all of this?” And as a result, here I am, 51 years old, divorced and working with my teenage girls, which presents some adversity all by itself. Being a teenager is hard. Being a teenage girl is even harder. My daughters are fantastic and I love spending time with them, but wow, life is hard for them. They deal with a lot. And so, I enjoy the time I get to spend with them, but adversity is everywhere. 

My story really comes together when I found this PhD program and it gave me a vehicle to understand my background, to understand the story that I had. I was asking, “Why am I experiencing all of these different adversities? How do I deal with this?” I'm not the type of person to give up and quit. I'm not the person that says, “Oh, this is too hard. I'm done.” I keep on slogging through it, pushing forward, right? That's been the story. There was a tragedy that occurred in our family where we lost our grandson. That was tragic in a way that it's tough to describe. Not long after that, my mother-in-law passed away from COVID in the fall of 2020. These tremendous adversities coming up, not unlike the adversities that many of your listeners are going to hear about and that you've probably faced yourself, Josh. 

I had to get away. All of this was happening and I had to get out of town. I didn't even know where I was going. I got in my truck and took off. I spent the night in Fairplay, Colorado. Hadn't ever been there before. Woke up the next morning, saw a place called Twin Lakes, Colorado, and ended up at the base of Mount Albert. I summited Mount Albert that day. much later than you're supposed to, like 5, 6 PM, and got back in the dark. But as I was going through that and processing all the challenges I was having while climbing that mountain, I realized I need to share this with people because I'm not the only one out there who’s climbing difficult mountains. A lot of us are climbing difficult mountains in every category of life—physically, spiritually, emotionally, socially, financially. I mean, there are all kinds of different mountains to climb. These mountains are opportunities for us to grow, develop, and learn, if we can change our mindset in a way that helps us to take advantage of some of those opportunities. So that's an encapsulation of a lot of the things we speak about and some of the experiences I had.

Josh: Thank you for sharing. There's the concept of involuntary adversity and voluntary adversity, right? Involuntary adversity is like a bunch of the stuff you just mentioned, intense stuff, losing loved ones, being in a firefight in Afghanistan. You would not have chosen those, right? Most people would not put themselves in those situations, but life is going to throw stuff at us, and that's unavoidable. Sooner or later, we're going to lose people we love. Maybe some of our younger listeners haven't experienced anything super tough, but sometimes they have at a really young age. Sometimes people end up getting hit with stuff they're still working through in adulthood, right? But yeah, we start there on the involuntary side. Sometimes life happens and we get thrown into stuff. Then voluntary adversity is when you decide to participate in a sport or decide to climb a mountain or decide to do other hard things. We put ourselves in those situations. It almost seems like we're wired to have adversity. If there were no adversity, if you knew the Broncos were going to win every time, who would watch?

Justin: Yeah, there's a relationship between voluntary and involuntary adversity. I like to look at voluntary adversity as practice, and involuntary adversity as being like the game, right? There are a lot of things we can practice for. We can put ourselves through challenges with the idea that when the moment comes, we're able to do that. We go to the gym when we want to keep in good physical condition. 

Now, if I can just go down a small rabbit hole—so, we're going to the gym, right? I like to work out. Let's say I'm lifting weights one day. I'm going to use some different words to bring this up in our minds. At the gym, I'm going to grab some dumbbells and I'm grabbing 35 pounds of adversity. I'm going to do various exercises with it, right? What effect does that have on my physical body? Well, it breaks down some muscle tissue, ideally, if I'm doing enough weight. And depending on the movements, it's breaking down on a molecular level, some muscle, tendons, ligaments, things like that. It's affecting my range of motion. And the idea is that during the recovery phase, my muscles, tendons, ligaments, all of those parts are recovering and growing and coming back stronger than before. 

Now, why do I go to the gym? Why lift weights? Why get on the treadmill or elliptical? It's not because I want to be an elliptical superstar. It's not because I want to throw metal around the rest of my life. It's because when I'm working in my yard, or I’ve got to pick up a box in my house, or I'm working on my truck or doing something else, I have the strength to be able to do the things I want to do. So going to the gym isn't the game. Going to the gym is the practice. This is where I'm practicing with adversities. I'm practicing so that when I need to perform in life, I'm ready for it. I have better balance. 

That simple analogy of practicing through the voluntary adversities is really what gets us ready and prepares us to do other hard things, prepares us to get through those involuntary adversities, because they happen all the time. 

Your life can be going amazingly well; you can feel like you are lucky in everything you do. And if your phone breaks down or doesn't work, or if your car breaks down and doesn't work, your whole life is shot. I can't communicate. I can't get where I need to go and everything's falling apart. There you go. There's an adversity. We don't ever mess up our phones on purpose. We don't ever mess up our cars on purpose. That's always involuntary. And it always involves some amount of, feeling, “Well, do I have to fix my own tire? Do I have to call somebody? Have I been in this position before? How do I get through this? Do I just fall apart in a pile on the floor and cry?” There are different ways for us to handle this. So, I like how you bring up that relationship between the voluntary and involuntary adversities. They're around us all the time. We can practice and get better.

Josh: Yeah, everybody's situation is different, but there's a whole generation that we tried to put in a bubble. We gave out participation medals and didn’t want anybody to experience any kind of failure or hard stuff. But sooner or later, you're going to have some adversity anyway, right? You're going to have tough stuff that ends up happening at some point. And if you haven't trained, if you haven't experienced any of that and built up to it, your whole world is going to be crashing down. And then as far as voluntary adversity, if they're a cadet at the Air Force Academy, they've signed up for it, right? They've already been through a lot of hard stuff because the standards are pretty high. But how do you teach about that with these people who are going to be leaders? You've got a lot of responsibility there, as far as forming them and helping them prepare for that.

Justin: Absolutely. and I got to tell you, working at the Air Force Academy, it's an honor and a privilege. One of the reasons is because the cadets, generally speaking, are some of the most amazing individuals I've ever met in my life. It's important to remember how competitive it is to get into the Air Force Academy, to get into any of the service academies. It's extremely competitive. Good grades, good leadership examples, high athletic ability, service in the community. All of these things are characteristics that cadets bring with them to the Air Force Academy. I like to say that we're sharpening the blade. We're not really forming it, because they've done so much to get where they already are at, but we are definitely honing and sharpening and working with cadets. 

I've also worked as an assistant high school football coach, and I’ve seen that some individuals have had it tougher in life, and seem to be more resilient. Some seem to have had it easier in life and they can be a little less resilient. You mentioned the bubble wrap. There are a variety of ways that we refer to the situation where parents, for a variety of reasons, feel the need to remove the obstacles from their children's lives. Sometimes they call it bubble wrapping their children. Sometimes it's called snowplow parents, where they get rid of all the obstacles. There are helicopter parents where they're hovering and watching. But the whole concept there is that some parents are concerned for their children out of love. They want their children to do well. And they think that by removing the really difficult obstacles in life, they’re helping their children. In a certain way, that makes sense. But what we've seen over time, and research bears this out, is that when an individual doesn't get to experience financial difficulty, when they think all they've got to do is swipe a card and get whatever they want, well, that does not teach financial responsibility. When a person thinks, “Oh, there's going to be a car available for me and I don't know really where it comes from or the resources that it takes to come up with it,” then when the time comes that they do have to think about it, they don't know what to do. 

The whole Air Force Academy experience is designed to be challenging. It's supposed to be challenging. We want our military leaders to know how to deal with stress, how to deal with adversity, how to effectively and efficiently navigate challenging situations. Well, how do you prepare future leaders? You've got to create those challenging situations for them to be able to go through and navigate so that when it happens for real, they’re ready. It goes back to practice versus the game. The Air Force Academy is not the game, right? The Air Force Academy is the practice. This is where we are developing these leaders, leaders of character and quality, ready to serve their country. They have developed their abilities through different leadership experiences and through adversities so that when they get into the active duty Air Force and serve in the joint forces, they know that they're comfortable or at least familiar with dealing with adverse situations.

Josh: So, if you had a young person just entering the real world, how would you coach them to be prepared and also to put themselves into situations to be encouraging to them?

Justin: Whenever I'm coaching, whether it's with an executive or a student, one of the very first questions I ask is: “What is it that you want to accomplish? What is your goal?” Some people have tangible, specific goals. Some people have very general, “Well, I want to be really good at what I do, or I want to get a specific grade, or I want to have this ability,” or something like that. And then I say, “Okay, where are you at right now? What's your ability right now?” Once we’ve figured out where we're at, that's good. We've got where we want to go, where we're at right now. And we say, “What do you think are some possible paths to get where it is that you want to go?” That's where a lot of people stop. You've got your destination; you've got where you're at right now; we've identified the path you want to go to get there—and then they stop. 

What I do is push further and say, “What are the adversities that you expect to occur along the way? What are some of the adversities you've had in the past? What are some of the things that you have experienced that have prevented you from accomplishing your goals? Do you think those types of things are going to happen again in the future?” I dive into these adversities they've already experienced. Josh, I love talking about this, and I love getting in front of a group of people because people will feel, “Oh, you know, my life has been so difficult and I'm here today because I don't know what I'm doing.” To which I say, “Whoa, whoa, stop, The fact that you're sitting here today having this conversation means that you have already overcome so many adversities. You have already set the trend for yourself that you have been successful just because we're here.”

I look at the Air Force Academy cadets and say, “You're at the Air Force Academy. How many adversities did you have to overcome just to be there? Just to exist at the Air Force Academy and keep on going through it?” And they go, “Wow, you're right. I have overcome a lot.” 

“That's right. So the trend line for you is moving forward, right? That's what you've continued to do.” And then I ask them, “What types of things do you think you're going to anticipate experiencing in the future? What types of adversities have your friends experienced? Have your parents? Do you have a mentor?” 

I like to differentiate between mentors and coaches because they have different functions. This is something I've gone into in some of the research, the differences between mentoring and coaching. I ask, “Have you talked to a mentor, someone that you want to become like, someone that has a track record you are attracted to and want to follow? And have you asked that person what types of adversities did you face along your path?” This is how we tie generations together as we ask those who have gone before us what challenges are out there and what can we expect. Then we're able to practice for those adversities we haven’t yet experienced. We can benefit from other people's experiences, benefit from adversities they've faced. So, when I'm doing coaching, it's essential to identify the goal and where you're at right now, then figure out the path. Without identifying the possible adversities, both expected and unexpected, without identifying the challenges ahead, I think it's difficult to thrive, because the challenges are coming. They simply are.

Josh: And they will. Certainly, on the wealth management side, we talk about risk a lot with clients, things that can and will happen, right? Things are not always going to be rosy. All kinds of stuff happens, none of which was predictable. You get thrown into those situations and then how you react, the decisions you make in that situation make all the difference. 

Shifting over to Warrior Bonfire, we're talking about guys and gals who raised their hand and said, “I'm willing to serve.” We’re very grateful to them for doing that. But most of the people participating in Warrior Bonfire have gone through some really intense stuff. Can you talk more about the program, how you get involved in the program and how do you help in those situations?

Justin: Warrior Bonfire is under the umbrella of a Veteran Service Organization, or VSO. There are a lot of VSOs out there, but Warrior Bonfire is unique in their approach to helping veterans, specifically Purple Heart veterans. They get small groups of these Purple Heart veterans together. When I say small, I mean 6 to 8. They go on a retreat somewhere and share stories with each other, share resources with each other, open up to each other. There are sayings they have--that pain shared is pain divided, and joy shared is joy multiplied. As we share our pain with each other, as we share the adversities we face, this is how we divide that up and help shoulder each other's burdens. Warrior Bonfire does a fantastic job of networking with different veterans and getting them to connect with each other and develop their own networks so as they deal with the challenges that we veterans deal with from time to time in a variety of ways, from health, to mental and socio-emotional, and other things, we find out that the best people to rely on is each other. 

We work with a lot of veteran service organizations, and when we get together, the veterans frequently talk about how they just can't share the experiences they've had with anybody but other veterans, because people look at them horrified, get big eyes, and the veterans don't want that. They want to know, “Hey, even though I experienced this, I'm still normal, right? Or whatever normal means. I still have value. I'm still a good person.”

We go through all these challenges together. That's what Warrior Bonfire does, through that special experience of being around a campfire, being around a bonfire. I don't know if you've had that experience yourself, but there's something magical about being around a bonfire, being around a campfire. When you're there with your buddies and sitting there chatting, the conversations change. Getting together in that environment and talking with the men and women that have served their country, the ones that like you said, have been willing to say, “Send me, I'll go,” the ones who put themselves in harm's way and have experienced significant challenges, sacrificed a lot of their own mental and physical health and well-being to serve their country. 

I go to the leader retreats. They have certain retreats just for the leadership, where they work on sharpening their own acts, sharpening their own sword to get better at what they do. While there, I share some of these ideas about adversity and how to keep moving forward, how to keep bouncing forward. We always go up and down when we try to move forward, so we keep bouncing forward. How do we talk about some of these experiences that we're having in a way that normalizes the experiences and helps us shift our mindsets? We could say, “Hey, you know, I experienced this, so I would never want this to happen to me or anybody else again, but maybe now I'm better at actually helping other people that have gone through this experience. How can I share what I've learned, share that message with others?” There's that pain divided and joy shared, right? 

I've gone on a couple of retreats with shared activities where we're getting together and working together, developing connection. There's a lot of research coming out over the last few years about the essential nature of connection and quality relationships. There's a Harvard Happiness Study that talks about the number one indicator of a happy, successful life is the quality of our relationships. Post-COVID, we realized just what difficulties we were experiencing because we're so disconnected. 

Veterans, we love to isolate, and there are a variety of different reasons, but it feels more comfortable sometimes to isolate and get away from everybody. Yet mentally, physically, really what we need is connection with each other. And where Bonfire does a fantastic job is connecting a diverse crowd of veterans from all over the country and getting them together and getting them to connect in a way that maybe they haven't done before or haven't done in a long time. 

What I try to do is help design activities and discussions to help facilitate those connections, build those relationships, and help them help each other. What I'm all about is helping to change mindsets so we can better engage the adversities we have. I use the word stronger. Stronger is an interesting word. It doesn't always mean physically stronger, but mentally better able to engage those adversities. So, I love what I do and look forward to a lot of good things in the future.

Josh: Thank you. Thank you for serving in that capacity. That's an amazing resource. You think about wars, World War II, Vietnam, even when people came home, you're supposed to go back to your normal life, but you hear people's stories and I mean, wow. I mean, how do you experience something like that, and then just expect someone to go home like nothing's changed.

Justin: Yeah, exactly. I mean, we just remembered Pearl Harbor Day. My grandfather was there in Pearl Harbor that day. He had photographs of him as a young Air Force officer, Army Air Corps at the time when he was joining up. I've read some of his journals of what he experienced. What a difficult, challenging, life-changing experience on that day, when so many of our service members lost their lives in that attack. And thinking about December 7th and about September 11th, when these things occur, what happens in very difficult situations, can also end up providing a way for people to connect with each other. I don't know if there was a time in our country when we were more unified than after Pearl Harbor Day. I don't know if there was a time when we were more unified than after September 11th. I have to be cautious. Josh, when I say this. I am never suggesting that it's a good thing that we've experienced these tragedies, these horrific things. I would never say that at all.

I will say that human beings have the remarkable ability to take tragedy and turn it into something beneficial, to learn and grow from it. Even COVID, the fact that you and I are having a conversation and we're using this thing called Zoom. This didn't exist in the 1980s, 1990s. I don't know if you ever experienced trying to do a video teleconference? Oh yeah. They were impossible. You had to schedule a very specific time and then you had to hope that all the stars aligned and the satellites were in the right spot and then it always cut up. Now Zoom is just an everyday thing. Zoom, Microsoft Teams, so many other chat functions, things like this. They came about because a tragedy happened, something like COVID happened, and there was a lot of innovation that occurred. 

Innovation always follows those adversities because people have to adapt. They have to change. They have to develop something new. I had a person ask me one time, “Well, is there a way that we can have the innovation and the adaptation and develop those new things without the adversities?” We can run drills. You can pretend. A friend of mine would every once in a while shut off all the power to his house. He would look at his wife and kids and say, “Okay, for the next week, we don't have electricity. Deal with it.” That's how he would bring a little adversity into his life, to try to help his family deal with a situation like that. Without taking measures like that, we don't experience these difficult things. So, the best thing we can do in those circumstances is to at least train our mindset and change the way we look at adversity. And Josh, the way I talk about adversity is different than I've heard other people talk. It applies in financial ways too. If I can give you a simple football example: First of all, I'm not a football coach. I'm not in the NFL. I played in high school and that was it. But when you're watching football, referees have a job—to make calls. And part of the game is that there's often going to be a bad call. I'm not saying anything negative about referees. What they do is very challenging. I don't know that I would want to do that. But in any sport, football, basketball, even soccer, every once in a while there's a bad call. Sometimes those bad calls can change the outcome of the game, if a call brought back a touchdown or whatever it did. I think to myself, in planning to win a game, what if we planned on 10% of those calls being bad? What if we planned on 10% of those calls going against us?

We’ve actually developed a game plan where we said, “We are going to win; we have to develop a game plan to win the game, even with 10% of those calls going against us.” Think about this in a financial way. I've got to figure out a way to be financially successful, even if I experience a certain percentage of losses on a regular basis. I've got to figure out how to be successful anyway. I've got to figure out how to get out of my house and go to the gym in the morning, even though mentally I don't want to be there. How do we build this adversity into our mindset and say, “What if I planned my life a little differently? The adversity is part of my plan. It's not something that I have to overcome. It's not something that I hope doesn't happen. It's part of my plan.” When we do that, when we reframe adversity as something that needs to be a part of our plan, then our plan changes and builds in resiliency. Because then when the tough times happen, we say, “Oh, yeah.”

Josh: That's one of those. Yep.

Justin: Right, exactly. That changes the way we engage. And I don't see a lot of people talking about adversity as a beneficial thing or a thing that we look forward to, to help us grow and develop and learn. It's usually thought of as something to stay away from, or how do we spend money to get rid of these things or get away from it. And I think if we change the way that we look at adversity and see it for the opportunities it can provide, it can change the way we relate to each other, change our communities, really change a lot of things in the way we grow and develop and thrive.

Josh: Yeah, the power of anticipation and even really hard things that you know are coming: For example, my parents are both in their early 80s. They're going to die, right? They might be around for 10, 20 more years. It's possible. Will all 10, 20 of those years be good years? My dad golfs. Is he going to be golfing at 100? Probably not. So, anticipating that, I can't stop that. I can encourage him to walk, but that's going to be painful. But what if I spend time knowing we've got the time, right now? So spend it. In financial planning, knowing that there's going to be bad things that happen, if you do things like buy insurance or build an emergency fund or get your debt paid off, then when something bad happens, it doesn't just blow up your entire financial situation. It’s good to be thoughtful while knowing that you can't predict all of it. 

I did want to pivot to a topic I know you've been talking with your students about recently—about how gratitude can be the antidote to the tragic stuff, the crazy stuff that life throws at us. Tell me about how you're instilling that in the cadets and in your coaching.

Justin: Sometimes it's hard to understand the impact that gratitude can have, but I can tell you that personally I've experienced it. I was just having a conversation with somebody the other day. When we change the way we look at some of the adversities that we're facing and look at our life in general and express gratitude for those things that we truly have, it changes the way we look at our lives. I've got a brother that used to work for US AID. He was intimately familiar with the situation going on in Sudan. And he and I were complaining about something the other day and he said to me, “You know, that's true. This is a difficult situation. Man, I'm so glad that I'm here right now and not experiencing what the people in Sudan are experiencing, because my gosh, that's just horrific.” And I think about that and say, “That's absolutely right. I'm sitting here, I'm in a warm house, I'm sleeping in a warm bed at night. I'm sitting here having a great conversation with you. I'm going to go to work today, work with some colleagues, and we're going to develop some lessons.” 

Am I grateful for that, or do I just take it for granted? And when we actually express the gratitude, not only feel it, but express it to other people, it changes our own mindset. It changes the way we feel about things. And so when we're talking about gratitude with cadets, we're talking about, not only is it important to recognize, but you have to express it. Find someone. How often do we reach out to those that have had a huge impact in our lives and thank them and express our gratitude for them? There's a great book out there by Martin Seligman, a guy who does a lot of work at the University of Pennsylvania in the world area of positive psychology and this idea of flourishing. And in his book, Flourish, he talks about thinking about the different people that have had a huge impact in your life and actually taking the time to write them a note. Then if you can, go meet with them, and read this note to them and spend that time thanking them. 

You think, how often do we thank those people that have had that impact in our lives? Or do we just expect everybody to do what's right for us and to help us in some way? So when I'm talking with the cadets, when I'm working with the cadets, there is this concept of specifically thinking and writing down, what are the things in my life that I take for granted? And what are those things that I'm truly thankful for? And how did those things come into my life? And are there people that I can reach out to and thank? One of the thoughts that I had for cadets was, how often do you reach out? Every cadet that attends a service academy has to have some sort of congressional appointment from some sort of senator or congressman or maybe a presidential appointment. And I've asked cadets a couple of times, how often have you reached back out to those people and thanked them? You probably did right after you got the appointment. You found out they're going to endorse you to go to the Air Force Academy. That's fantastic. Well, after you've been there for a year, for two years or three years, and you're having this experience, how often do you reach out to that person that gave you that appointment? You could not have gotten to the Air Force Academy without them. They were a critical piece of your history. When have you reached out to them and said thank you? And it's like, wow, I haven't talked to them in a few years. Yeah, you're right. When's the last time we thanked our siblings or our parents for dealing with us as teenagers? I mean, I've got teenagers, and I love my daughters.

Josh: I do too. They're not saying thank you yet.

Justin: Right? It's a challenge. And so it's about finding those people that have had such a huge impact. Thinking about those things, how do they come into your life and expressing that gratitude, really reaching out. And then of course, being willing and able and excited about then sharing and helping other people's lives as well. And being the person on the other side of that equation who now is writing the endorsement. Being the person that is now helping. You were helped. Now you pass that forward, pass that on, however you want to look at it. But that's a huge piece of gratitude as well. Am I truly grateful for something if I'm not willing to pass that on? 

Being generous. This is a fantastic time of year. I love the holidays for a variety of reasons, but one of the reasons is because it tends to open people's hearts a little bit where we realize, “Hey, we don't want to be the Scrooge.” And giving feels good. It feels good to help people out. And another way to express our gratitude is by helping others, serving others, and finding those moments because we don't know who's going through what challenges. We might just be that angel who comes into their lives and fulfills a need, answers a prayer, however you want to look at it. That's helping them build resiliency, and it's helping us be resilient as well. That's connecting us. 

All these concepts are so tied together, from connection and building resiliency and relationships to overcoming adversity and being grateful. They're intertwined. Josh, I love my job. I love the space that I'm in. I love the fact that we get to talk about this.

Josh: I know. It's great. You said before, the quality of your life equals the quality of your relationships. I 100% agree with that. You know, hopefully we all live to an old age, and at that rocking chair hospital bed moment, nobody's going to be thinking about their money, their investments, their cars. Even their problems are going to seem insignificant at that point. At the end of the day, it's about relationships, no matter how wealthy or poor or whatever somebody was, that's what will matter in the end. You're right. It's a great exercise, right? We don't take enough time to say thank you. And that's a huge relationship builder.

Justin: Absolutely. And as I've thought about, there are people that now I'm literally looking for—three or four people who had a huge impact on my life, and I don't know where they're at. I'm looking for them. One of them, I’ve learned is on the East Coast somewhere. I'm getting closer. I'm throwing my detective hat on to find those people. I'm not stalking them for bad reasons. I want to find them so I can thank them. You know, some high school coaches that I had, who made a huge, huge impact and changed the way I see my life. There was also a person who gave me a job, took a chance on me when maybe I didn't deserve it, and gave me an opportunity through work, right? Work is so essential. And to have somebody take a chance on you and give you that job, wow, what an amazing experience to thank that person, find that person. So yeah, gratitude is critical. It's key. 

As we're going through our challenges, there are always going to be people helping us. Thinking back to Afghanistan again, nobody deploys by themselves. I wasn't in Afghanistan by myself. I had a platoon, and we took care of each other. We watched out for each other. That's how Special Forces teams work, Navy SEALs. Nobody goes out by themselves. We like to see these movies like 007 where it's the single operative. But even in the last Mission Impossible movie, he still had a team. There's still a team of people helping and supporting each other. We couldn't do the things we do without that team surrounding us and helping us as we work and struggle together. Certainly, that team spirit exists for some of us in families, for some of us in our friend groups, and especially the veterans’ groups. My heart goes out to my veteran buddies out there and I enjoy connecting with them whenever I can.

Josh: Absolutely. Well, thank you. Thank you for your time and for your openness to share, and especially for your service. You're still serving, right? And my guess is that's something you're going to be doing your entire life. So thank you.

Justin: Absolutely. Josh, this is what I love to do. When somebody says, “What do you want to do with your life?” I say, “Well, I want to help people.” The question is how. And this is how—by talking to people about their own mountains to climb. We all have mountains to climb. And in that climb of that mountain, there are ups, there are downs, and that's all okay. When I talk to people about the different mountains they're struggling with, through coaching and presentations and speaking at conferences, different things like that, I just love to talk to people about the research I've been able to do, what I've discovered. Sharing these concepts is part of the whole goal of helping somebody change the way that they see their adversities or challenges to better engage those things, so they're more successful in life, have better relationships, more connection, happiness, strength. 

Josh: Absolutely. And what's the best way for people to find you?

Justin: I'm on LinkedIn. You can find Justin Stoddard on LinkedIn. The website for the company is www.climbingthemountain.blue , which is interesting, right? Dot blue instead of dot com or dot org. There are some snippets on there of me sharing different ideas. And if somebody wants coaching assistance or anything, they can go to that website. There's a request function there. Also, I have a YouTube channel with a couple of videos posted. Between the LinkedIn and YouTube channel and website, those are the best ways to get ahold of me. And I would tell people, get ahold of me. Let's just talk. Even if you just have some ideas or thoughts you want to express or some questions you have, get a hold of me. Let's chat and see what we can do together and see what mountains we can climb together. The only thing better than climbing mountains, because I love climbing mountains whenever I can, is doing it with other people.

Josh: And staying around the fire at night, and talking about the experiences, right? Exactly.

Justin: Climbing those mountains and sharing those experiences around the fire.

Josh: Yeah, that's awesome. All right. Hey, thank you, sir. I appreciate it.

Justin: Thank you, Josh. Thanks for having me on. And Josh, thank you for what you do. I got to tell you, not all children grow up with parents that understand finances, right? And not all children go to high schools that understand finances. And there are a lot of people that have no clue. They just figure, well, financial wellness means that I go get a job and I earn money and I put it in the savings account. And that is not the case for financial well-being. It's complicated. It's difficult. There are a lot of things to navigate. What you do with your people, your listeners, is essential for people's financial well-being and financial resiliency as well. So thank you for what you and your team do and keep doing it.

Josh: Yeah, absolutely. And everybody's got a story, right? Even people who are super successful, you think of a Jeff Bezos or a Bill Gates or a Warren Buffett, people like that. It's easy to say, “Oh, they're one of the richest people in the world. They've got this huge, massive company.” But then if you really look back, Jeff Bezos was packing books and taking them to the post office, right? Or UPS to ship. They had very humble beginnings. 

Justin: Thanks a lot, Josh.

We love feedback and we'd love it if you would pass it on to me directly at josh@keystonefinancial.com Also, please stay plugged in with us, get updates on episodes, and help us promote the podcast by rating us five stars and subscribing to us at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast service. 

The opinions voiced in the Wiser Financial Advisor show with host Josh Nelson offer general information only and are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual. To determine what may be appropriate for you, consult with your attorney, accountant, financial or tax advisor prior to investing. Investment advisory services offered through Keystone Financial Services, an SEC registered investment advisor.