The Wiser Financial Advisor Podcast with Josh Nelson

The Wiser Financial Advisor: Interview with Connor Sung of e-Money #134

• Josh Nelson, Wiser Financial Advisor, Keystone Financial Services, Conner Sung, e-Money, AI

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Show Notes:
We hope you'll enjoy Josh Nelson's interview with Connor Sung, the director of eMoney's Financial planning group who has been instrumental in developing eMoney's technology, practice management, and planning services to support both advisors and their clients since 2013. They discussed their experiences with e-money, a financial planning software, and the impact of AI on financial planning technology. They also explored the evolving role of technology in their industry, the importance of financial education, and the future of the financial industry. Lastly, they discussed the potential of technology to enhance the quality of advice and drive innovation, and the need for clearer definitions among financial advisors, fiduciaries, and certified financial planners.

E-Money Financial Planning Software Evolution
Josh and Connor discussed their experiences with e-money, a financial planning software. Connor, the Director of Financial Planning at e-money, shared his journey from a finance undergrad to his current role, highlighting his focus on financial planning technology and best practices. He noted the significant evolution of the software, particularly in collaborative planning and client experience, with a shift towards more personalized, interactive, and adaptable financial planning. Josh, a 25-year industry veteran, agreed with Connor's observations, emphasizing the importance of ongoing financial planning rather than a static plan.

AI's Impact on Financial Planning Technology
Connor and Josh discussed the impact of AI on financial planning technology. Connor highlighted the potential of AI in automating administrative tasks and building efficiencies into financial planning engagements. He also mentioned the development of a rules engine to suggest topics or techniques for advisors to discuss with their clients. Josh inquired about the integration of AI into client communication and documentation, to which Connor responded that while AI is already being used in these areas, its application in personalized planning engagements is still being explored. They both agreed that AI will continue to shape the future of financial planning technology, with potential applications in autonomous planning and client-led planning. Connor also stressed the importance of data cleanliness for effective AI models, estimating it may take 18 to 36 months for technology to adapt. The team agreed to send the final product to Vito for distribution to the team and discussed the expected timeline for AI adaptation and potential impact on the industry.



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Podcast Editing: Tim Leaman/info.primegen@gmail.com

Josh: Recently, I had the opportunity to sit down with Connor Sun. Connor is the director of eMoney's financial planning group. EMoney is one of the largest and most successful financial planning software companies in America. Connor has held various roles at eMoney since joining in twenty thirteen and contributing to more than ten years of technology practice management and planning experience to support both advisors and their clients. He is also a CFP certified financial planner, which is the gold standard in the financial planning industry.
I think you're going to enjoy our conversation. We talk about the direction of technology and how that can support both advisers and clients and artificial intelligence, how that will not only enhance the experience, but not replace all of us when it comes to the future.
Connor, uh, thanks for being with us today. Thank you for having me. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
And I've I've followed you, and we are power users. Full disclosure, we're power users of of eMoney, and you're the director of financial planning at eMoney. Uh, so we've we've actually used and our clients, you know, therefore end up using the software as well, uh, on a daily basis. So, uh, definitely glad to glad to have you on, and, uh, it'll be great to learn from you. I look forward to talking about tech and the market, and financial planning is the at the heart of all that.
Yep. Absolutely. Yeah. Lots of uncertainty in the world, uh, too. So that's a lot of what we try to provide anyway is some sense of certainty through the things we can control, right, through financial planning.
But before we dig into that, uh, what attracted you to E Money, uh, originally? What attracted you to the company and how has your role evolved since you came on board?

Connor: I was a finance undergrad. It was a hundred percent corporate finance. The explosion of financial planning and financial planning technology as a career path was still, I guess, in its infancy.
I started Anymoney's customer service team kind of answering tier one calls of financial advisors looking for support on the tech. And then, you know, as I've gone along here, picked up my CFP and did a couple other designations and stuff on my path. I've carved out a little niche inside of the technology and supporting, uh
, financial advisors with the kind of the best practices, best use, better adoption of financial planning, and then obviously all of that is in support of the way, the value, the quality of the advice that advisors are passing on to their clients. Yeah, that's great. What have you seen as far as the, uh, we'll call it the product, right? The software, um, how has that evolved since you came on board? Uh, what what have been maybe some of the biggest things that you've seen, uh, change since that point?
The two major spots is, uh, the collaborative planning. And I think that that's been a a major pivot in our industry. And then, uh, our client experience, we continue to invest a a ton of resources towards, um, I think the overarching picture is just a a better engagement, a better experience, a more personalized version of what a financial plan probably was into this more adaptable, interactive, and collaborative piece where advisors and clients are able to build financial plans together versus going through a fact gathering experience, you know, having a meeting a month later, having another meeting a month later. You're able to do that stuff now through tools like the decision center or, again, through something like a client portal where you're able to share that financial planning experience, but you're also able to offer other features and functionality around the financial plan, like, you know, consolidation of all of their, uh
, assets and organization of their financial life. That's exactly what things used to be like. Uh, so this is my twenty fifth year in the industry. So I've dated myself a little bit now, but when I started as an advisor, that's what a financial plan was. Right.
Is that, yeah, there'd be this lengthy fact finder and then a stack of documents about this thick, and you went through it with the client. And it was really pretty, but it was irrelevant the next day. Everything changed. So that's, yeah, one thing we really appreciate about, uh, not only the software, but our approach is that it's really more financial planning. Right?
It's not a financial plan. It's something that's ongoing and is changing constantly. Yeah. That was, uh, where we make the joke that the the only things that are a hundred percent true life death taxes and the fact that none of those plans were actually looked at. Right.
Josh: Absolutely. I'm sure. Yeah. I went home and they collected dust. Right.
Yeah. Exactly. So I what like, what trends do you see right now? And, of course, you know, everything is about AI right now in the future and and and, uh
, uh, how it's gonna impact every sector, every industry, every company. What do you see as far as trend shaping the future of maybe just financial planning technology in general, but, you know, steering back to what you guys do and what you guys are seeing? Connor: We can start with AI. AI, I think will, uh, is gonna be impactful across every industry. And, you know, even as we are, uh, recording this, you know, it's building a new transcript.
It's going to have an entire summary page, takeaway items if that's the thing. Though as I think about that as part of financial planning engagements, that technology is already here, and that is truly AI in its, you know, best fashion of doing some administrative tasks and building efficiencies into an experience or an engagement. I think about my use of Spotify, right? Like every morning I listen to, to Spotify and I have a daily briefing that's a combination of my music that I've liked, plus some other news stuff about the music that I've liked and this crazy company combination that's super…
personalized. As it pertains to FinTech, we will continue to build and try and figure out how to adopt AI into financial planning engagements. As I think about the tech, I think there's the aspect of client communication. There's, um, documentation note taking. Those things I think have already started to be commoditized a little bit via that technology.
As far as the planning engagements, they're so personalized that we're still trying to figure out exactly where to go. Our first strides into that, you'll start to see some stuff over the course of the next twelve to eighteen months where we've built, uh, essentially a rules engine to look into pieces of information that have been input into the fact pattern…and then offering up suggestions as to some of the topics or techniques that advisors should be talking about to their clients. So if I have, you know, X, Y, and Z things input, then it'll output some sort of rec to the adviser. As far as clients and how they interact, then we've just had some rollouts, right, here recently, but it seems like the optics are getting a lot better, uh
, for clients.

Josh: Do you see that AI will well, as far as kind of an end user experience, do you think that, uh, that AI will kinda weave its way into that as well? 

Connor: I do. I think some of what we're calling autonomous planning is will be our first stab into some more tech led advice pieces. I think some of that stuff will start to filter its way into client led planning.
We believe that financial advisors are crucial into a truly financial well-being type of relationship that revolves around a financial plan. With that being said, we also believe the clients should be enabled to kind of play around with their own plan, their own lives. At the end of the day, it's their values and their value alignment that you're trying to help deliver money to help drive towards that that level of success. So I think some of the stuff will end up coming out on the client experience side where it's less about the adviser delivered advice, and it's more about the tech helping surface opportunities and then driving people back to you in order to actually say, like, hey. You know, the technology offered up this this idea.
Is this a thing? Can we do this? I never thought that I'd be in a place to do this. So it'll be beneficial for for all parties, including the technology. I think it's cool stuff.
That's one thing I've always appreciated about, uh
, eMoney too, is that, uh, even at the beginning, I I started as an independent adviser and started using the software back in twenty ten. And that was one thing I really appreciated is that it was, uh, visually built to be a two way tool, right, that the client had access. We had access, uh, obviously, some different functionality on each end. But it it seems like that really has evolved more and more that the client has more optics, the client has more tools. The collaboration that can happen is a great thing.
And again, we're seeing that across all industries. And there's kind of the, uh, the the fear, you know, a lot of people, uh, talking about that, that, well, there won't be a need for doctors, you know, all these things, right, or airline pilots. I don't really buy into that anymore than I believe that our profession's gonna go away. I just think that the tools are gonna get better and it's gonna make us better at our job. Years ago, I would have said that, you know, this move towards holistic planning is has still continuing.
I think we're there now. I think we're at a spot where the quality of the advice is gonna be the differentiator, not the actual quantity of advice delivered. And, you know, stuff like, uh
, the CFP board working towards their their brand standard around what the definition of a financial planner is versus financial advisor. I think, uh, that in combination with a lot of the mergers and acquisitions that are happening across the wealth management space, I think we'll start to see, plus the regulatory bodies, I think we'll start to see a lot more, um, regulation around requirements for specific financial planning topics, as well as requirements and regulation around use of technology. I think it will be a huge raise of the bar across the board as to the the quality of advice that's offered to to clients. And honestly, the alignment of how people are paying for that advice, I think will will continue to evolve as the quality of the plans evolve. 

Josh: Sure.
Yeah. Yeah. You're right. As far as, uh, I think that there's, uh, continues to be some confusion on the consumer end as far as what is a producer, what is a financial advisor, what is a certified financial planner. So I think the CFP board actually has done a good job defining it.
But most people, my experience at least, is that most people that are in our industry, whatever they call themselves, if the client or the prospective client asks, well, do you provide financial planning? Everybody says, of course, we do. But as far as what that actually means that what they get is very inconsistent. Let's shift gears to the podcast a little bit. Um
, so you are the, uh, host of the Heart of Advice podcast. How has that experience been like for you and what's a valuable lesson that you've learned with your conversations with financial advisors, right? 

Connor: You talk to people like me all the time. So what have you learned on your end as you've been going through that experience? I do.
I co host with, uh, another one of my colleagues. Uh, she and I have I think we've released ten ten or so episodes at this point. I think one of the the more difficult things that we've gone through is doing it in a remote environment where I'm, you know, pulling cues off of somebody via via Zoom and trying to understand when my co host is gonna jump in, when I should stop talking, you know, my vocal reactions, my my facial reaction to pieces. Uh, it's it's been a journey. And I, you know, I I correlated a lot to having virtual meetings with with my financial advisor.
And, like, actually being able to to read people's faces, to understand kinda where they're at, body language. It's been fun, but it's been the most difficult part is new new and different challenges inside of, you know, releasing something where I'm interviewing and versus just having a, you know, a more informal conversation via via Zoom. We're having an internal meeting. How how do you approach financial education on your end when and I guess this could be from eMoney standpoint too. Right?
Uh
, they we talked about there's an upcoming, uh, eMoney conference coming up for financial advisors, uh, that you'll be part of. You'll be speaking. Um, how do you guys approach financial education internally to ensure that, uh, your team stays at the forefront. Right? As as things are changing so quickly, uh, how do you stay relevant?
So we have, uh, we have a specific pod inside of the financial planning group that is dedicated towards financial education and financial wellness. There is a ton of content that comes from that that group of subject matter experts that are accredited from everything from a PhD through, you know, uh, CHFC, CFPs, as well as AFCs, which is, uh, financial counseling. So there is a lot of opportunities across our blog. A lot of it is advisor facing. A decent amount is actual just pure financial education on any number of financial planning topics.
And we have, uh, CE webinars monthly. We participate in programs like the externship, um
, and others to try and help other, uh, organizations that are delivering education and advice towards that that next generation of financial professionals. Yeah. And then things are changing rapidly. So I, what would you say some of the resources that you really enjoy, Conor, and you think are helpful, right? As far as dating up on the industry, uh, the financial industry and the financial planning industry?
Well, number one, as far as the, the financial planning industry goes, uh, I think Michael Kitces does a phenomenal job of staying Yeah. They're great. Completely agnostic. And while sometimes we don't always agree with his opinions, they are typically pretty true. And I think it's, uh, it's a wonderful resource for financial advisors to to stay up to date on everything from technology through client engagement and practice management too.
As far as my my own kind of personal financial education journey, I listen to a few podcasts. I would, you know, obviously, I'll I'll throw the plug in there. We have to listen to the the Wiser Financial Advisor podcast. 

Josh: Yes. Absolutely.
Conner: Uh, the other kinda spots that I I have a few newsletters that I will I will track down. Um, one is, uh, the morning brew. So the morning brew is one that's pretty general in nature. It's high enough level where you're not deep diving into anything particular. There's also daily versions of that podcast that are out there.
There's also a ton of deeper dive podcasts that come out pretty frequently. Um, I like the the Motley Fool has a a money podcast, which is a lot of fun. And then there's, you know, the the Nerd Wallet is also a great place for consumer education. Those are, uh, at least a few of the spots that I run down some of my initial research things. Josh: Yeah.
Absolutely. We we talked about your podcast before. There's, uh, never been a time where they're just just a plethora of resources. Right? Most of which are free.
So and and some of the newsletters and things are are really not that, um, expensive even, but it can be super valuable. You know, thinking back on your career, and we're fellow certified financial planners. Right? And so, uh
, from an education track standpoint, we've we've probably tracked, uh, closely there and keeping up with things. Uh, but, uh, as far as new people coming into the industry, and and I'm sure you have the opportunity, right, uh, within a a larger organization like Emani, what advice would you give to say a a young, uh, maybe their prospective financial advisor, maybe just graduating from college, just starting their career? Uh, what advice would you give them as far as what should they do, right, to to start being successful and and find their way in the financial industry? Well, I mentioned it a little bit at the beginning, just my own career path. I think, uh, I've I feel like I've I made my own way here as far as finding a fintech as a as a career versus actual financial planning or financial advice.
That has and will continue to be my advice advice to most folks that are in a registered program or are in a personal financial planning undergrad, or they're working on their capstone or whatever it is that they're pursuing at the time. I think, you know, historically, you would have joined a wirehouse and, you know, cut your teeth there, and then maybe you move to an RAA and you kind of make your path. And then once you're in the RAA, maybe you start your own and figure it out. But I would say, keep your eyes open. There are a ton of other opportunities.
Having planning as a subject matter expertise, you don't necessarily have to go directly into production. Obviously, production is gonna be the majority of where folks end up. But if you look at the, you know, huge companies now, the home office services and the staff, that's their differentiating value prop. So if you find one of these major companies, they're hiring for financial planners to help with centralized planning services or fintechs now. Obviously, there's a ton of money.
If we look at the the kit, this map, I think, um
, that thing started in twenty nineteen. And Mhmm. Over the course of the last five years, it's, like, ten x ed in the number of logos on that for now. The the private equity getting dumped into the fintech market as well as just these niche planning services that are continuing to help personalize the depth and the the level of advice. I can't imagine that fintechs won't keep popping up and I a hundred percent biased, not even just a little biased, but it's a it's an awesome opportunity to, to get close.
They'll feel like you're some level making a difference, even if I'm making a difference a little bit in your life. And then you're able to pass kind of that mental gratitude, that mental currency on from helping your clients. Yeah, absolutely. There's, yeah, you're right. There's so many opportunities now.
For other financial advisors, what's, uh, one piece of, uh, advice that you would give to at least attempt to future proof, uh, their practices and the changing environment that we're in? I would say clean your data. AI will be impactful in the next, you know, maybe eighteen to eighteen months to three years. I think technology is gonna take a while to vet and build their own or figure out the right adaptations of some of the public models. It's always based off of the quality of the data that's going into those models.
So I I look across, you know, my CRM system. I look across my financial planning software. I look across my book of business in eMoney, and, ultimately, I have, you know, two to three versions of households built into there. I have two to three versions of, you know, clients in my CRM system that are not linked to the right households. All of that stuff is just going to produce trash that comes out the back end of the AI and…
spend the time while it is a major headache. I'd say either hire somebody to do it or dedicate, you know, x amount of time per day or do it as you go through reviews. But data cleanliness is going to be a, I think, a major problem in the next two plus…
years. Yeah. Trash in trash out. Right. Um, so, yeah.
Yeah. Uh, on a personal note, um, how do you personally stay organized just as your role has evolved? Uh, you've taken on a lot more responsibilities. And again, being a, a host of the podcast and so forth, um, your job has gotten more demanding. Uh, how have you kind of worked to stay personally productive and organized such a demanding role?
Well, number one, as far as my, my own personal finances, I do actually use the money's client portal, my myself, as I need to, for, you know, certain life events going in and going through the, you know, thirty, forty minute headache of trying to update all of my passwords and stuff like that. On a professional level, I think the one spot and I I'm in between softwares right now, but there are awesome workflow creating softwares out there…in lieu of having perfectly integrated systems, which, you know, we all that is the goal is I input one piece of information. It flows perfectly across all of my my stuff. Right. Uh
, in lieu of that, there are technology companies that offer a essentially, like, a macro based service where…it does something like that, whether it's, you know, manually doing it through your computer or if it's them centralizing some aspects of data, it does not fit for all pieces of, uh, an engagement model or a project plan. But I would say to investigate some workflow tools, um, to to help supplement some of the the more manual processes that you have to work through. Yep. Yep. Absolutely.
What do you have an example of of one that you have found helpful? Uh, I've again, as I make my way through my eval my reevaluation process, maybe I'll I'll pass something along. Yeah. Yep. Absolutely.
Yeah. It's changing a lot too. So but yeah. Thank you so much for your time, uh, and and thank you for your service in the industry. We we appreciate the partnership that, uh, we we have with E Money.
And again, it's a a pretty, uh
, central part of of not only how we work on a day to day basis, but also how our clients interact with us and and our planning with them. So thank you. Appreciate your time. Yeah. Yeah.
Thank you. Keep on, uh, building some financial confidence and peace of mind out there for us. Yep. Absolutely. Alright.
Thank you. We love feedback, and we'd love it if you would pass it on to me directly at josh at keystone financial dot com. Also, please stay plugged in with us, get updates on episodes, and help us promote the podcast by rating us five stars and also subscribing to us at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast service. The opinions voiced in the Wiser Financial Advisor Show with host Josh Nelson are for general information only and are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual. To determine what may be appropriate for you, consult with your attorney, accountant, financial, or tax adviser prior to investing.
Investment advisory services offered through Keystone Financial Services, an SEC registered investment advisor
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We love feedback, and we'd love it if you would pass it on to me directly at josh at keystone financial dot com. Also, please stay plugged in with us, us, get updates on episodes, and help us promote the podcast by rating us five stars, and also subscribing to us at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast service. The opinions voiced in the Wiser Financial Advisor Show with host Josh Nelson are for general information only and are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual. To determine what may be appropriate for you, consult with your attorney, accountant, financial, or tax advisor prior to investing. Investment advisory services offered through Keystone Financial Services, an SEC registered investment advisor…